Well, one sort of counter-argument is to look at how many people that start out at "I will never have children" actually *do* change their minds. It's really the vast majority. IE, "Pretty much everyone" does end up either with children, or regretting the lack.
And what is your source for this, please? Other than projecting your own experience onto everyone else, which is, of course, what I am probably doing as well when I see lots of people NOT changing their minds?
I'd also remind you that most people != all people.
So let's ask Google: Part of this article seems to be missing (http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/06/14/child_free_do_they_change_their_minds_.html), but three out of three child-free subjects did not change their minds in 12 years. Can't read this entire article (http://time.com/241/having-it-all-without-having-children/), and this follow-up (http://werenothavingababy.com/childfree/youll-change-mind-childfree-myth-busted/) found that of the couples profiled, one did change their mind, but the others did not. Most of the links I am finding are from childfree blogs, which I accept are inherently biased. It would be interesting to do a longitudinal study, find people in their 20s who say they don't want children, and then go back and find those same people 30 years later to see the results.
"There are, in the real world, examples of homosexuals that never have homosexual sex. There are asexuals that reproduce, psychopaths that never kill, and autistics that communicate. It's *hard*, but it's not impossible"
It's not at all hard for me to come up with reasons not to have kids. And the gay people who force themselves to not act on their desires aren't happy. People who don't want kids and don't have kids are happy.
the impulses you described, to pass on your musical talent, or preserve your youth, may have been squashed pretty quickly, but squashing them is still what you're describing.
No; they're more like, as Mel describes below, wondering whether I fancy a sandwich and then deciding I don't -- or, to draw a better parallel, being on a tall building and getting a momentary impulse to jump off, and within a split second deciding that, no, that's stupid, of course I don't want to kill myself. You think that not jumping is hard? No, it's the easiest thing ever to overrule that momentary, irrational impulse. And I've had those impulses far more often than twice in my life, and here I am, still alive, with no aching regret that I didn't jump, and no belief whatsoever that at some point in the future I will "change my mind".
And yes, believing that a rule is "everyone thinks/feels this" but discovering exceptions DOES in fact mean the assumption is wrong. You can't claim that everyone likes pizza when you've met someone who doesn't like pizza. All you can claim is that pizza is popular.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2015-06-18 09:22 am (UTC)And what is your source for this, please? Other than projecting your own experience onto everyone else, which is, of course, what I am probably doing as well when I see lots of people NOT changing their minds?
I'd also remind you that most people != all people.
So let's ask Google:
Part of this article seems to be missing (http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/06/14/child_free_do_they_change_their_minds_.html), but three out of three child-free subjects did not change their minds in 12 years.
Can't read this entire article (http://time.com/241/having-it-all-without-having-children/), and this follow-up (http://werenothavingababy.com/childfree/youll-change-mind-childfree-myth-busted/) found that of the couples profiled, one did change their mind, but the others did not.
Most of the links I am finding are from childfree blogs, which I accept are inherently biased. It would be interesting to do a longitudinal study, find people in their 20s who say they don't want children, and then go back and find those same people 30 years later to see the results.
"There are, in the real world, examples of homosexuals that never have homosexual sex. There are asexuals that reproduce, psychopaths that never kill, and autistics that communicate. It's *hard*, but it's not impossible"
It's not at all hard for me to come up with reasons not to have kids. And the gay people who force themselves to not act on their desires aren't happy. People who don't want kids and don't have kids are happy.
the impulses you described, to pass on your musical talent, or preserve your youth, may have been squashed pretty quickly, but squashing them is still what you're describing.
No; they're more like, as Mel describes below, wondering whether I fancy a sandwich and then deciding I don't -- or, to draw a better parallel, being on a tall building and getting a momentary impulse to jump off, and within a split second deciding that, no, that's stupid, of course I don't want to kill myself. You think that not jumping is hard? No, it's the easiest thing ever to overrule that momentary, irrational impulse. And I've had those impulses far more often than twice in my life, and here I am, still alive, with no aching regret that I didn't jump, and no belief whatsoever that at some point in the future I will "change my mind".
And yes, believing that a rule is "everyone thinks/feels this" but discovering exceptions DOES in fact mean the assumption is wrong. You can't claim that everyone likes pizza when you've met someone who doesn't like pizza. All you can claim is that pizza is popular.